The injection pump on a Duramax is mounted in the valley of . When it does occur, the roller tappet on the bottom of the piston hits the camshaft perpendicularly rather than in a parallel manner. Come join the discussion about reviews, drivetrain swaps, turbos, modifications, classifieds, builds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! While it may be an inconvenience for some to have the recall performed, Ram is really doing its customers a solid on this one. Whenever you have a problem involving an, If youre like most diesel truck owners, one of the first modifications youll make to your truck is a high-flowing exhaust system. How Much Does It Cost to Replace a CP3 Pump on a Duramax? CP3 Pump Failure Symptoms And Common Rail Injector Problems - This is a one-stop symptom checker for issues related to common rail injectors and CP3 pumps. Well the other day I noticed something wet on the bottom of my cp3 and wiped it with my fingers and It was diesel. JavaScript is disabled. Like previous versions of the 6.6L Duramax, the LML came void of a lift pump from the factory. All Bosch BMS nozzles "haze". Be it common rail Cummins problems, fuel control actuator issues, 6.7 low fuel rail pressure codes, or the like, the following should help you with common rail diesel troubleshooting. What are the symptoms of a bad CP3 pump on a 2007 Dodge 5.9 3. PDF High Pressure Common Rail Basic Information Oregon Fuel Injection To test a CP3 fuel pump, follow these steps: The rebuilding of a CP3 pump should not be attempted as a DIY project due to its complexity. Many of these problems, however, stem from things unrelated to the design of a common rail system, which common rail owners should be aware if they want to minimize expensive repairs. If you own any common rail injected diesel long enough, there is a very high likelihood that youll experience an FCA issue at some point in time. I installed the new turbo and the code was still being thrown. While the part is inexpensive to replace (compared to an injection pump or fuel injectors) it can be very difficult to access on certain engines, so before you tackle the job to replace an FCA, its a good idea to know how to properly diagnose and replace a fuel control actuator. FUEL CONTROL ACTUATOR Cummins CP3 Diagnosis failing to fully seal the filter or failure to fully prime the system afterward). 5 Fatal Flaws of the Duramaxand How to Fix Them, Does Your Overland Rig need Dual Batteries? Thanks to a host of improvements over the 18 model year engines, which included a compacted graphite iron block, stronger forged-steel rods, revised pistons with low-friction rings, larger diameter head bolts and an earth-rotating 1,000 lb-ft of torque, the all-new 6.7L Cummins looked all but perfect on paper when it launched in January of 2019. Oh, and the repairs can cost you anywhere from $6,000 to $10,000 or more, depending on where you take the vehicle. Just verify it as not something cheap(er) before replacing the whole pump. If you want to see the first compression ignition engine built by Rudolph Diesel, you have to go to Munich, Germany. Since starting in 1983, XL Mechanical Service Ltd. has repaired hundreds of Cummins diesel engines. In order to meter the fuel into the chambers, the CP3 has an internal metering/lift pump built right into it. A CP4.1 has a single element and is typically used on smaller European engines. So, dont worry about these minor problems. In simple terms, the FCA controls how much fuel is allowed to enter the injection pump, which in effect controls how much pressure the pump can develop. And what is the rail pressure at idle ? In a Duramax or Cummins diesel, a low-pressure pump first draws fuel from the tank and pressurizes the fuel to around 10 psi. But moisture can also come from condensation of outside air, leaky storage tanks at a fuel station, or even rainwater puddling on top of an auxiliary tank in the bed of a pickup. Thinking about replacing the high-pressure pump or common rail injectors on your Cummins engine? If the off brand replacement nozzles are SAC, they will "haze" also. Is a 3.0 Duramax the Right Truck for You? If the light comes on, this verifies all components downstream of the FCA are operating like they should, and further supports the theory of a failed FCA. It seems way too simple to work but it does work! I think one thread mentioned the symptom that I am having but it was kinda vague. When the PCM commands lower fuel pressure, greater voltage will be applied to the solenoid, the valve will close to its predetermined position which restricts inlet flow and limits rail pressure. is very a frequently asked question among late-model diesel truck owners. Duramax V8 used a Bosch CP3 injection pump, Diesel Exhaust Fluid: Everything You Need to Know. As long as it starts correctly should be no issues there. Air infiltrating the CP4.2 remains the biggest cause for the pumps failure. And the separator should be checked at a standstill, preferably after the engine has been shut down overnight. If youre familiar with the CP4 injection pump, you know they can cause major headaches with the fuel system if they fail, and the collateral damage gets very expensive. I have read thru all the threads about CP3 pumps. Therefore, CP3 fuel pumps are better than CP4 fuel pumps. Replace it with an XDP Remanufactured CP3 pump . . Depending on throttle input from the driver (and the specific model of pump) fuel pressure can range between 5,000psi at idle and 28,000 psi or more under full load. Within about 20 seconds, the ECM will perform a self-test routine which will cause the light to brightly illuminate for a second. On, Finding parts for your truck can be hard because of an endless list of factors including company trustworthiness, price, dependability, and much more. While it's not our place to declare an official single source of the problem, what we do know is that debris created by cam erosion (metal shavings wedge between the rollers and buckets, causing the rollers to skid against the lobes and ultimately become flattened from excessive heat) eventually passes into the injectors and then is recirculated throughout the fuel system. sometimes if the o-rings are bad and youre loosing prime, youll get the p0093 code as well. nut on the top of the CP3 with that looks like there's a ball bearing in the middle of it. I just purchased a Arson III kit for my CP3 and want to make sure all is well before I install. GM rigs are not equipped with lift pumps. It started having a pretty significant "stumble" or "miss" mainly in the higher RPM range. The CP4s experience catastrophic failures that are caused by various speculative reasons ranging from ultra-low-sulfur diesel not having sufficient lubricating properties to lack of maintenance. Aerated fuel allows the piston assemblies to float and they often rotate in their bores when this happens. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Originally founded for owners and enthusiasts of Cummins powered Dodge pickups, the Cummins Forum has expanded to include ALL Cummins Engine applications! Purchasing high-quality replacement parts from Bosch is . Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories. #1 Bought my First New ram 3500 in August 2019 Here it is June 2020 , 7310 miles later and the cp4 pump went out Truck has Been there for a month , Just Now was told By Chrysler that they're Expediting a pump from Canada So Another 2 weeks Told them I would like a Buy back and was Basically told Sorry we'll fix it & Your own your Own. Scheid prefers Stanadynes performance and lubricity formulas, partly because this company makes pumps and knows how they function and can wear out. The P0093 code appears when there is a problem with the CP3 pump. If the discharge volume is low, a bad HP pump might be the problem. The diagnosis and replacement steps are pretty much the same whether you have a Cummins or a Duramax, but the big difference is accessing the pump to replace the FCA. While the various oils, water, and fuels are referred to as a powerplant's "life bloods," the latter liquiddiesel, for our purposesranks highest among all of them. 1. The FCA is the metering device, that directs fuel to the pumping plungers for the CP3 injection pump. Check for a leak at the high-pressure pump drive shaft seal. The CP3 was used on both the 5.9L and 6.7L Cummins common-rail engines from 03-18 and enjoyed a reputation for reliability (and still does today). The CP4.2 is used in GM 6.6L Duramax LML, Ford 6.7L Power Stroke, and 2019-to-present 6.7L Cummins powerplants. Injectors have 2000 miles and have been tested good. I don't know what is causing me to get a low voltage and also it doesn't seem like I can build boost. It may take a couple times of doing this process before it fixes it. Common Rails Common Problems: Typical Diesel Troubleshooting The VGT turbo sticking open or closed will cause black smoke. Not only did Stellantis, the new parent company of Ram since the FCA/PSA Group merger, find a way to revert back to the CP3 on the 6.7L Cummins engines supplied for its 21-present trucks, but it announced a massive high-pressure fuel pump recall back in November for all 19 and 20 models. 6 Common GM 6.0 Engine Problems, Symptoms and Solutions, 5 Common GM 6.2 Gas Engine Problems with Symptoms and Solutions, Can OnStar Unlock My Car Without Subscription, 6 Common 5.3 Liter Chevy Engine Problems and Solutions, 5 Common GM 4.3 Engine Problems and Solutions, Is OnStar Worth It or Not | Benifits and Drawbacks of OnStar. The smoke may not be visible if the trucks are equipped with DPF (Diesel Particular Filters). The FCA is held to the pump with three torx T25 screws, but to get proper tool engagement, you will need a longer torx bit. 5. To see if the smoke disappears while idle, you can test cutting out a cylinder when using a scan tool. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(8307329, 'b49e6c0b-488d-4a7e-b942-316748b92a99', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); If you're experiencing one or more of these symptoms, it could mean your fuel system is failing: When replacing your fuel system components, make the right choice! 2 diesel (whether its labeled as such or not) and it tends to attract water droplets. The K16 pump is located in the rear of the block, but its underneath a valley cover which sits behind the compound turbos, so accessing it is a total nightmare, and unfortunately, if either solenoid or valve fails, youll have to replace the entire pump since the valves are not considered a serviceable item by Ford. You can, however, fix minor issues like a leak on your own. A failed or underperforming CP3 pump can cause a loss of power or leave you stranded on the road. Consider using some water-eliminating fuel additives. Dodge went to the CP4 injector pump from 2019-2020 on the Ram 2500/3500 Pickups and the Ram 3500/4500/5500 Chassis Cabs with the 6.7L Cummins en- gine. He says Scheid is also currently doing long-term testing of Stanadynes cleaner for common rails for benefits on DPF maintenance, and the company feels that additive can be of help, as well. Then well focus on a few common concerns encountered on common rails. After all, the same type of failure takes place on the CP4.2-equipped LML Duramax engines offered from 11-16. You can simiulate max output for the CP3 by unplugging the FPR and fuel sensor. ScheidDiesel.com, Your email address will not be published. 05 QC LWB 4x4 Auto 3.73 LSD, IssproEV2's, Performance 48RE Opie TransGo , Smarty Tuned BBI Injected. Even if it's just a leaky fitting, at 240k miles I'd say that CP3 has lived a full life ! I've been told a worn injector pump will affect mpg but can't say on personal experience Well guys I decided to pull the injectors again this past weekend and sent them to a different place to be tested rather than the place I got them from. The Cummins 5.9L CRD uses the Bosch CP3 injection pump, used also on the DMax 6.6L V8 CRD and the Jeep 2.8L CRD DESCRIPTION A radial, 3-piston pump, with a gearotor pump attached to the back, is used as the high-pressure pump for common-rail fuel pressure generation - in this system it is capable of pressures between 300-1600 bar (4351-23206 psi) . I have replaced the FCA,FPS,and FPRV. There is a pressure control valve (PCV) and a volume control valve (VCV), both of which can fail. For an LML Duramax, Exergy offers an FCA with a fine mesh screen that will trap any debris before it enters the rest of the fuel system, and for a 6.7 Powerstroke, S&S offer a fuel re-route and filter kit that installs between the FCA and the pump. Its number 2 on our, Cummins History, Lesson 5: 07.5-18 6.7L, Performance Roadblocks of the 6.7L Cummins, Performance Roadblocks of the 03-07 5.9L Cummins, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Nitto Tire and Driving Line. Typically, CP3 needs over 4,000 psi rail pressure to start the engine. White or Blue Smoke 5. Common Rails Common Problems: Typical Diesel Troubleshooting - Diesel World If it doesn't work, then this isn't the cause of your knock sound. A Poor Track Record The Bosch CP4.2 developed its notorious reputation in LML code Duramax V-8's, which GM began offering in the 2011 model year for its 2500 and 3500 series trucks. The Cummins 24v fuel injection system has three primary components: a lift pump, an injection pump, and injectors. When discussing CP4.2 pumps, the universally recognized term for describing them is simply CP4. Also, modern common-rail diesel injectors can fire two or three times per engine cycle, doubling the wear on the injector compared to diesels of the pasthence the need for more conscientious maintenance. How long does a Duramax CP3 last? A faulty CP3 pump causes various problems in your vehicle. From 2001 to 2010, the Duramax V8 used a Bosch CP3 injection pump, and from 2011 to 2016, it got the updated Bosch CP4. This guy rebuilds them and as sold over 100 with a 100% good rating. The Return of The King (Of Injection Pumps) - Diesel Power Products What are the common causes of a bad CP3 pump on a 2007 Dodge 5.9 5. Theres no fix for a broken solenoidit has to be replaced. GMs latest 6.6L Duramax, the L5P, now also leaves the factory with an electric lift pump. Weekdays he works for the local cable company dealing with the electronic wonders of the communication and entertainment world. This a typical symptom of a weak CP3 Pumps found on all the 03+ Dodge Cummins Trucks. The company's new 6.6L Duramax LML CP3 conversion kit bolts directly in, features a pump with the correct drive gear, and doesn't require tuning. Cummins 5.9 Lift Pump Failure. Be it common rail Cummins problems, fuel control actuator issues, 6.7 low fuel rail pressure codes, or the like, the following should help you with common rail diesel troubleshooting. All told, keeping your common rail operating smoothly can be as simple as avoiding that old acronym about computers: GIGOgarbage in, garbage out. In other words, a clean (and dry) diesel is a happy diesel. The only gotcha for a job like this is making sure you dont strip out the head of the torx screws, so take some time and clean out the heads of the screws with brake cleaner and compressed air to make sure no grease or dirt can prevent the tool from fully engaging. I just got home from work and looked under the truck at the bottom of the cp3 again and noticed the same wet spot. To further test the circuit, youll have to disconnect the plugs on the ECM and use an electrical multimeter to measure the resistance of the wiring between the FCA and the ECM. After all, the fresh 6.7L sported a CGI-block, stronger connecting rods, revised pistons with low-friction rings, larger head bolts and produced 1,000 lb-ft of torque. But no pressure out of the pump leads back to the pump. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Power Products Unlimited, Inc. All Rights Reserved, How to Diagnose and Replace a Fuel Control Actuator (FCA) on Your Diesel. However, the problem with doing this is that the swap typically requires eliminating certain pieces of emissions equipmentlike diesel aftertreatment hardware, for examplewhich are required by law to be in place and unmodified and also bring a need for custom ECM calibration in order to make the engine operate properly. How to Start a Diesel When Its Out of Fuel, Wild Twin-Turbo Ram 1500 TRX Destroys Quarter-Mile E.T./Speed Records. Maybe a new FCA is in order ? The CP3 fuel pump has a longer lifespan than the CP4 but has some minor problems. CP4 fuel pumps have a lifespan of less than 1,00000 miles, whereas CP3 fuel pumps have a lifespan of more than 2,50000 miles. (Confirmed Fix) CP3 Knock repair w/ before and after When this truck sits for. Although it's heavy, the pump features three pumping elements instead of two and uses an offset cam with a polygon, and a single-bucket that houses an actuator (picture a flat-tappet cam-and-lifter setup in a gas engine). It evaluates the pump's rpm and has a common rail attached with . Its a critical component, since common rail systems have much higher injection pressures, and tolerances are measured out to five-place decimals. 0:00 / 3:19 Is Your Cummins or Duramax CP3 Pump Bad? This in turn results in poor injector performance including starting issues, reduced fuel economy and performance, and rough running. No more input needed from us. When I plug the FCA Cummins QSL9 automatically shut down, Your email address will not be published. Then he collects and measures the fuel discharge by cranking the engine for ten seconds three times. Marine app. Make sure the water filter screens down to the correct micron level. Once all three screws are out, simply pull and twist the FCA out of the pump, lubricate the O-ring seal on the new one, and push it into place. Cummins 6.7L turbodiesels from 2019 to now, as well as Ram/Jeep 3.0L EcoDiesel engines from 2014 to present, also use CP4 injection pumps. 3 REASONS NOT TO REBUILD. Aluminum CP4s are lighter and have only two pumping elements, but they use an aggressive camshaft with a bucket featuring a roller that rides along the cam's lobes (like a roller cam-and-lifter in a gasser). The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. CP3 Pump Failure Symptoms And Common Rail Injector Problems So then I went to the Fuelab lift pump and followed all the wiring to make sure there weren't any shorts or bad ground connections. If you do suspect a failed FCA and the engine still runs, one simple test would be to fire it up and use a scan tool to log commanded fuel rail pressure along with actual fuel rail pressure and compare the two readings. Your fuel tank is filled, and you are trying to start the engine, but it is not taking the start. Just fill out the form with your name, engine information, and the parts you need, and our ASE-Certified Technicians will get back to you with an estimate. Products from Highway and Heavy Parts presented in this web site are not to be confused with any of the products or trademarks of any OEM company. High return flows or connector tube/injector problems can be pinpointed to a specific cylinder by disconnecting one injector line at a time. Cp3 failures are very rare, I had a 3rd gen with nearly 400k miles on original pump. This minute thickness makes a human hair look like a tree trunk by comparison. It will help if you disconnect the exhaust to diagnose the smoking problem. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. My truck has been throwing a P0251 code every time I tow and get after it. Just be warned however, there are a few other problems that do occur which can be masked with the unplug test. No long cranks cold/warm and hardly any black smoke up to temp. While reconnecting, I ended up breaking the turbo turbine shaft that holds the compressor wheel. When your injector fails due to wear and tear, it causes your engine to hang at high RPMs. Usually, you wont be left stranded on the side of the road with a no-start condition, but it is possible. Most starting problems due to low pressure are caused by bad (eroded check ball seat) injectors. Instead, well show in the accompanying photos some of the basic steps and tools used to evaluate common rail injectors at an experienced shop, Scheid Diesel. The rough/lope idle is caused by excessively high rail pressure at idle, if the CP3 is worn out there is NO way it would cause HIGH rail pressure, it will only come up short of commanded. This is a common symptom of a bad CP3 pump. Diesel Diagnosis: Symptoms Your Cummins ISB Fuel System Is Failing, Symptoms Your Cummins ISB Fuel System Is Failing, REPLACEMENT OPTIONs FOR YOUR High-Pressure Fuel Pump, 4929594 | GENUINE BOSCH CUMMINS 6.7L MIDRANGE HIGH-PRESSURE CP3 COMMON RAIL PUMP, REMANUFACTURED, REPLACEMENT OPTIONs FOR YOUR Common Rail Fuel Injector, 5256034 | GENUINE BOSCH CUMMINS ISB COMMON RAIL FUEL INJECTOR, REMANUFACTURED, If you're looking for quieter performance, improved fuel economy, and lower emissions for your Cummins engine, look no further than these fuel system components from Bosch. Diesel Diagnosis: Symptoms Your Cummins ISB Fuel System Is Failing This step regulates both the volume and output of the high-pressure (HP) pump. It evaluates the pump's rpm and has a common rail attached with . Believe it or not, improper fuel filter installation accounts for much of it (i.e. 1900 RPM was the lowest I noticed it but usually around 2200 or so. Come join the discussion about reviews, drivetrain swaps, turbos, modifications, classifieds, builds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Compared to CP4 fuel pumps, CP3 pumps are more durable and performance-oriented. You can unplug the fuel control actuator and the pressure should default to maximum (26,107 PSI), however if there is a leak in the injection system then the pump will not build enough . In the diesel aftermarket, where the problems associated with the CP4.2 have been documented for some time, many 19-20 Ram owners took it upon themselves to perform their own CP3 conversions. Well of course this is a thread of fuel problems.it seems this is the only problems I have with the truck. The CP3 is known for its high-pressure output and durability. Fuel pump repair isnt a practical solution to this problem, so dont try it. Not sure if cp3 or lift pump could cause poor atomization on cold start? What is the best way to check a cp3? [Archive - Competition Diesel How much does it cost to replace a CP3 pump on a Duramax? Diesel engines need fuel (Number 2, "red," etc. As mentioned, the CP3 is the longtime stalwart. Pump kits developed by companies such as Fass Fuel Systems and AirDog include high-capacity filters and aerators to ensure that fuel is clean and as void of water and air bubbles as possible. Keen eyes immediately questioned Cummins' switch to the Bosch CP4.2 given all of the catastrophic failures observed in the LML Duramax market, not to mention the fact that they fail on the 6.7L Power Stroke and '16-'19 Cummins-powered Nissan Titan XD's. At idle it should be around 5k psi. For example, the stock Bosch CP4s in 2011-to-2016 6.6L Duramax LML and pumps in current 6.7L Ford Power Stroke engines have really been under fire (they are actually the subject of class-action lawsuits). I've already replaced the fca not to long ago and PRV on rail about a year ago. I think one thread mentioned the symptom that I am having but it was kinda vague. A forum community dedicated to all things Cummins Diesel! . Every common rail diesel uses a high-pressure injection pump, and over the last two decades, there have been several different pumps used from various manufacturers. Original pump with 240,000. Rev the engine or take a short drive, and if your actual fuel pressure closely matches what the ECM is commanding throughout its entire range, the FCA is doing its job and is not the issue. Rough running. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The polygon rotates elliptically to pressurize fuel. Your email address will not be published. CP3 Pump Failure Symptoms And Common Rail Injector Problems In a PLN system, an inline injection pump handles the following functions: delivery of a pressurized and metered quantity of fuel to the injectors once for each power stroke; control of fuel injection timing; governor control of engine speeds and fuel delivery quantity related to the engine operating conditions. While supplying high-pressure fuel is an injection pump's job, the CP4 does so with a high probability of failing (typically around the 100,000-mile mark) and leaving owners with a need to overhaul their truck's entire fuel system, at a cost that can be anywhere between $8,000 and $10,000.